Interview with Dr. Murji
Dr. Latif Murji is the frontman of the indie-alt-rock band Parachute Thieves, and co-founder of Poems in Passage. He is founder of the not-for-profit organization Stand Up for Health and is a lecturer at Temerty Faculty of Medicine at University of Toronto.
Tell us about yourself.
I’m a musician and physician. Clinically, I work emergency medicine and family medicine in rural and Indigenous communities such as Manitoulin Island, Englehart, and Moose Factory. Sometimes I manage multiple nursing stations virtually, in very remote communities where there are no doctors. I am also the lead physician at the VaxFacts+ Clinic, which is a space for people who are hesitant about vaccines to speak one-to-one with a physician in a confidential, non-judgmental space. The initiative started out as a vaccine confidence clinic for those with hesitancy around the COVID-19 vaccine, but now it has evolved into a service for health education, preventative health counselling, and even cancer screening. I also have a not-for-profit in the health equity and ed-tech space, called Stand Up for Health, that delivers immersive training experiences for the social determinants of health. And I teach family medicine residents and medical students, in my role as a Lecturer at the University of Toronto.
That’s amazing! How about your work as a musician with Parachute Thieves?
A lot of my time and energy is devoted to my music and the arts. In terms of music, I'm the lead vocalist and songwriter of the band Parachute Thieves. I started writing music with Rob, our lead guitarist, years ago, back in undergrad. We amassed a bit of a following in Waterloo, but then I got into med school at UofT and we took a very long hiatus. Every day during my medical training, I would dream about one day living the musician life – consistently writing original music, recording it professionally, and performing to a lively crowd. I started slowly getting back into it in the couple years after residency, but then Covid hit. It was my experiences as an ER doc on the front lines of the pandemic that reminded me that I couldn’t wait till ‘someday’ to follow my dream. I took a leap of faith and made my way to Los Angeles, where things started to magically come together. We recorded our debut EP, Shed My Skin, which dropped at the beginning of 2023. Back in Toronto, we went on a bit of a tour, with our now four-piece band. Some of the highlights included playing our EP release show to a sold-out crowd at the Cameron House, headlining at the iconic El Mocambo and getting our first ever encore, we weren’t prepared for that! And then, we luckily landed the incredible opportunity to play a headliner set at the Rhythms of Canada Music Festival at Aga Khan Park. That was so special to me because a lot of my family was able to attend, like even my little nieces and nephews who were visiting from out of town. To be able to serve as a role model and inspiration for them is something I’m so proud of. We are now putting finishing touches on some new music that we’ll be releasing as singles over the next few months, before releasing our debut album. I’m also working on the cover art for all the singles, which is another form of art that I’ve been exploring.
That sounds like an amazing journey. I think you have a very unique perspective working on frontlines of the pandemic, and then creating music. That got me thinking about one of the singles titled Placebo. Placebo is a big concept in medicine; was that inspired by your experience as a doctor?
Placebo is actually a song I wrote over a period of many years, starting when I was first applying to medical school, and I added layers to it over the course of my training. It has influences from different spaces that I've occupied within medicine: knocking on the door, trying to get into medical school, then as a trainee, going through med school, residency, becoming Faculty and somewhat part of the academic and medical establishment, and serving on the frontlines of the pandemic. Ultimately, I chose to title the song Placebo because we can think of a placebo as something that poses as the solution, but it is not the true solution. As a physician, I feel in many ways, we are seen as the solution when often we are the placebo. A lot of the conditions that our patients come in with arise from structural inequities like low income, inadequate housing, food insecurity, and racism. These are not issues that a physician can solve with a prescription. I’m trying to get people to zoom out the lens and look at the challenges in our society and contemplate their upstream solutions, rather than the downstream placebos.
That's very inspiring! It is very impressive to be able to show that through art. You also mentioned that you create album art. What inspires you to create that?
Album art is a way for me to represent the feeling of the song, showcase an aesthetic, and add another perspective to the music. For example, Placebo is a funky, light, and upbeat song musically, but the lyrics have a lot of depth, darkness, and nuanced layers to them. The juxtaposition between the music and the lyrics is represented in the cover art. It has bright and energetic colours in the background, with a sterile image of a physician in the foreground, wearing scrubs and white coat. It’s actually me, wearing a clown mask to obscure my face. The mask represents imposter syndrome, it represents feeling like a fool and being forced to put on a smile while the healthcare system is crumbling. I'm also auscultating my own heart, symbolizing introspection and a call for authenticity. If you look closely at my auscultating hand, I’m wearing a ring pop, representing a sugar pill, the placebo itself. There’s a translucent layer over the entire image, of a crumpled paper bag. This represents the disposability of our experiences. I want the listeners to see something different in the art each time they come back to it, maybe as their own experiences change, they have a different perspective on it, adding their own meaning to the art.
Video explanation: https://www.instagram.com/p/Czw2s0Bv9Cw/
So we talked a bit about how medicine is influencing your music and your art; can you tell us a little bit about how being a musician is influencing you as a doctor, and specifically, as a primary care doctor?
The more time I spend on my art, the more sensitive I become to the world around me. My antennae have become much sharper; I've noticed that it helps me stay mindful about my own feelings and about what matters in different situations. When I'm speaking with a patient, I'm able to listen better and notice what is important to them. It helps me focus on the big picture as well: slowing down and avoiding band-aid solutions. These days there's so much pressure on physicians to see a high volume of patients; our healthcare system is just under so much pressure overall. Prioritizing my art comes with actively choosing models of care that will not exert that type of pressure on me so that I can take my time and deliver the best possible care to my patients; I’ve become more community-oriented. Art has also sensitized me to my surroundings, which means the suffering of others affects me more. However being able to focus on my art also allows me to reflect on those feelings and process them. In a way, art is protective, allowing me to be more present and give my full self.
You just launched a public arts organization called Poems in Passage. Can you tell us about that?
Absolutely. So the idea for Poems in Passage actually sparked from something both personal and nostalgic. Last summer I was with my best friend Addesse, we were reminiscing about growing up in Scarborough and how we used to come across beautiful verses of poetry on our TTC commutes to school. These were moments of reflection and inspiration for us. We found out the program had been discontinued years ago, and figured this would be something the city could really benefit from, especially post-pandemic. So we thought, why not bring that back? Why not rekindle that experience, but on a broader and more inclusive scale? So we founded Poems in Passage, to put profound poetry in public places across Toronto. Luckily for us, the TTC and Pattison were both immediately on board as partners, giving us access to unused ad space in 75% of the fleet, including streetcars, buses, and subway trains! Part of our mission includes ensuring Poems in Passage elevates the voices of underrepresented artists and represents the diversity of our beautiful city. So we’re proud that our inaugural cohort includes poets across the spectrums of age, gender, sexuality, race, and ability. We even included a poem from the famous 13th century poet, Rumi, in its original Farsi text, with an accompanying English translation by the Curator of the Aga Khan Museum’s Rumi Exhibition. Ultimately, we believe more public art, and more diversity of perspective can be healing.
Both medicine and music are quite demanding. Do you have any advice for current medical students who are artists and musicians trying to keep art as an integral part of their lives throughout their training and practice?
It is definitely hard to do this during training, and is much easier when you're done and in control of your own schedule. But I think you should try to keep it up by setting small goals for yourself and spending some time on your art every day, even for a few minutes. Consistency over perfection. Whether you want to hone your skills or learn new ones, expose yourself to different kinds of art; it will not only make you a better artist, but also a better physician.
Last but not least, do you have any upcoming projects we should anticipate?
Yes! As I mentioned, we’ve recorded a lot of new music and we’re dropping singles over the coming months, then a whole album! Notably, a song called “I Am Both” will be released – an excerpt of lyrics from this song can be found on the TTC as part of Poems in Passage. So you’ll hear the music and hopefully the poem will come to life in a new way. We’ve also written and recorded a new song called “Move Muhammad”. It’s about a character who longs to break free of cultural expectations and follow his calling as an artist. And musically, it’s a fusion of qawwali and South Asian classical music with alt-rock. I’m so stoked on this song, I really hope it serves as an inspiration to others, and we’re even going to make an epic music video for it. So stay tuned!
Book recommendations:
The Creative Act by Rick Rubin
Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
The Pocket Thich Nhat Hanh by Thich Nhat Hanh
Listen to their music and follow along the journey:
Interview with Dr. Kim
Dr. Sarah Kim is an Assistant Professor at the Department of Family and Community Medicine at the University of Toronto, serving as the Health Humanities Theme Lead for the Temerty Faculty of Medicine at the University of Toronto. She heads the Program in Health, Arts & Humanities, contributing additionally as Dance Artist-in-Residence. Dr. Kim works as a family physician with focused practices in Narrative Medicine, Surgical Assisting, Internal Family Systems Psychotherapy and Sports & Exercise Medicine, formerly practicing Emergency Medicine for nearly a decade prior to motherhood. Dr. Kim is the former Chief Medical Officer for Canada Basketball’s Women’s Elite Program with extensive field experience in event coverage, having travelled internationally for ten years representing Canada with the National Women’s Basketball Teams. Within her medical and teaching practice, Sarah integrates the arts and humanities, mindfulness meditation and movement education as generative components of resiliency and compassion-based care. Her investigations examine the relationship between high performance and historical ideas around the body, exploring embedded hierarchies and the intersection of humanness within industrialized systems. As a teacher, Sarah employs the arts a means of transformative analysis in the deconstruction and reconstruction of professional identity. Her method encourages a non-intrusive approach, inviting dialogue and positive affirmation of the full spectrum of the human experience that support the development of a well and resilient healthcare force; the foundation of a robust and compassionate healthcare system.
Dr. Kim received her Doctor of Medicine degree at McMaster University in 2003 and completed her Residency in Family Medicine at the University of Toronto in 2005. Following this, she specialized in Sport & Exercise Medicine at the University of Toronto, obtaining her Fellowship Certification in 2006. She holds her Diploma in Sport & Exercise Medicine with the Canadian Academy of Sport and Exercise Medicine. Dr. Kim completed a Masters of Science in Community Health in 2011 at the now named Dalla Lana School of Public Health. As a professionally contemporary dance artist, Dr. Kim integrates the circus arts, martial arts, urban dance and contemporary dance, all reflections of her diverse physical training background.
A more detailed bio can be found on her website: https://sarahkim.org
Samples of current and past artistic work can be found on Instagram: @sarahkim_md
Q: How do you currently balance that time along with your different passions and projects outside of medicine?
The number one thing I've learned over time is not to be rigid. While it can help to organize and structure things, life will always challenge your rigidity. It's keeping stock of what is a priority but then deciding how to organize your time around what is time-sensitive versus things that can wait, while not sacrificing all of yourself. What is interesting about medicine is no one tells you how much sacrifice it takes. People almost feel stripped of their identities entering into the system—moving from high school to undergraduate is a big step, and then going from undergraduate to medicine is like this huge thing that no one can prepare you for. It's like parenthood; no one can tell you what it's like. They can try, but because you have no reference point for something as all-consuming, it is one of those things that most people learn the hard way of how to keep a balance.
Medicine is a place where the need is endless. The need to learn, and the need to serve. It is a place where we are serving a massive amount of needs. What's also difficult is that as trainees and learners, you enter this time-limited period where you must be equipped not to cause harm. The primary goal of the training period is to produce safe and conscientious practitioners who are adaptable and can tolerate uncertainty in trying to balance life with medicine. It's changing now in medicine, at least, we're starting to arrive at a different discourse around what it means to be a person rather than part of a system simply put in there to serve. That's the historical model we struggle against and is why we see a lot of burnout right now. Because in medicine, we are not valued as people. It's (Emotions and bodily needs are) a place of shame. Historically, acknowledging that you are a person with needs is seen as weak, and we still internalize that value because it's part of many different cultures. It is an interesting emotional place that many cultures try not to go to or deny that it's there. That was something I was very acutely aware of within my first week of med school, where I felt a dissonance of what was embedded in the structural value system of medicine, which in many ways is like a patriarchal, military model. This dialogue is about dismantling the historical values that don't align with who we are. But again, it's within our structures. I often think about why I was thinking about these things as a student. I think it was because my family life was not conventional. Life was difficult and chaotic, and many things about it forced my siblings and I to be outside of the usual structures. I chose to disagree.
I also recognized that I did have a duty. As someone who accepted the responsibility of becoming a medical professional, there is a duty you have to balance as a learner who will be holding human lives in your hands. I would consider myself a diligent student because I uphold that value; I am responsible for becoming as best a practitioner as possible. But where are my pockets of time? What can I protect? I chose to find moments of social time. At times, I would say, ‘Okay, right now, while I'm studying, am I absorbing information? And if the answer was no, okay, I'll go for an hour and find my dance friends, then we'll dance somewhere.’ Or I would plan that I'm going to study up to this point, but then I'm going out. That's what I do now, too. Realistically, if I stare at my emails beyond 5 PM, am I being effective and productive, or is it taking me an hour to write an email that would normally take me 15 minutes? That's the self-awareness of acknowledging my limits and then how to fit in the work time that has to be put in. It's a lot of trial and error, and failure. The other thing I was willing to accept was failure. Like not being afraid of failure. I'm just going for things, and if it fails, then just be like, okay, well, I pick myself up and dust myself off. I think what's problematic in some of the learning circles is that there's such a fear of failure. You know, there's a lot of perfectionism to try and prevent failure from happening, but failure is often where we have the most amount of growth. What's hard in medicine is that everyone who gets into medicine is at the top of the class, and suddenly, you're in an environment where you face failure. It's hard because it hits you in a very tender spot, and I don't think we talk about that enough in medicine around navigating and normalizing failure as part of the pain of becoming a good medical professional. The better you get at being honest, 'Okay, well, that didn't work. What do I need to change rather than hiding and going into a place of shame?' is where a lot of productive growth happens. It's not an individual issue. It has a lot to do with the systems within which we receive feedback where failure is not supported in a way that fosters positive resilience and growth. But it's improving. Now we're having more conversations around how to support learners and acknowledge this is a normal thing that we all went through and then how to turn that into resilience-building moments.
Q: Could you guys tell us a bit about yourself and your medical background?
I did not do a science degree. I did my undergraduate studies at McGill University and was accepted to the Faculty of Science. When I was looking through the syllabus, I realized that all I would be doing in my first year was repeating what I felt I had just done in the sciences and maths in high school. I decided to switch out to the Faculty of Arts because I just had no greater exposure. I didn't know what anthropology was. I didn't know what linguistics was. I started as a double major in linguistics and anthropology but felt that was too narrow. I met with the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and asked if I could do my own program. There was a minor in what they called cognitive science, which crossed different disciplines from philosophy to psychology and a whole other collection of courses I could do across departments. I proposed it as an Honours major and ended up doing an Honours major in cognitive science, which allowed me to do courses in philosophy, sociology, anthropology, and computer science. I still kept a handful of the sciences out of interest. At that time, I wasn't necessarily trying to get into medical school.
But I have Korean parents. I was the kid they hoped would be the doctor. It was in the back of my mind, but not my focus in undergrad. But when I came to think about what I would do, I thought I was a pretty good candidate when I looked at my extracurricular interests and the academic side. All the volunteering I did was around care and health promotion. I volunteered with a sexual health group, a peer health group, a peer crisis-line, a student literacy group, a body image group, etc. I also didn't want to go to a medical school where all I would do was sit in a lecture and memorize, so I only applied to Mac and got in. Some of my classmates found what they felt was the lack of structure and direction stressful. I found it fine. I was already a self-directed learner and understood how to identify and fill my gaps, so I did well in the Mac program. I took a research year at Mac to study more on the history of medicine and some of the nontraditional forms of medicine, particularly around Korean and Chinese traditional medicine and then around the politics of what ended up being healthcare in Canada.
I loved all of my rotations. But when I was honest about which environments I felt were best suited, I eliminated surgery because I felt like it was quite a toxic and emotionally abusive training environment. I couldn't see myself tolerating that for a long time, although I loved its technicality. I was also considering anesthesia and psychiatry as well. My interests were broad, making me realize I was probably more of a generalist. After doing interviews for psychiatry, anesthesia and family medicine, I realized I didn't want to be so specific and specialized this early. That's why I chose family medicine and did the family med program at St. Michael's, which is the inner city program. It was great, challenging, and eye-opening in terms of a lot of the social medicine we do in family medicine.
After that, I did a fellowship in sports medicine after being introduced by one of my family medicine preceptors. I've always been very active in sports and did a bit of ballet when I was a kid. I played every sport in school that I could participate in, and then in university, I got into hip-hop and break dance. I competed and went to battles. I have a very clear memory of one battle in Toronto—I think it was in my first year of med school in 1999. I was the only woman to enter the battle, which was weird but fun. Someone recorded that battle and has it on a VHS tape that I saw years later. Movement has always been a big part of my life. When I graduated, I became an independent practitioner and practiced emerg, family, and sports medicine for several years. I narrowed it to emerg and sports medicine later on just because having a narrower practice with the two was easier. When I was pregnant with my first child, I chose to leave emerg—I couldn't imagine doing shift work safely while being a parent. Then, I became a surgical assistant with the orthopedic team at St. Joseph's in Toronto, which I still do. Being part of the orthopedic team was a good fit with sports medicine. In sports medicine, you see a lot of patients with chronic pain or chronic injury that doesn't improve. I identified a gap in my counselling skills and so did a lot of training in trauma and psychotherapy. Over the pandemic, with virtual care, I ended up closing my sports medicine practice because I found it too anxiety-provoking to practice sports medicine virtually and also, at the time, there was just too much going on, such as having the kids home for virtual school. I continue to be a surgical assistant with the surgical department at St. Joseph's, mostly orthopedics. I run virtual group psychotherapy and that continues to expand. Now, I have an academic role for UofT as the Health Humanities Theme Lead, which has shifted my clinical practice. So that's the version of where I'm at right now.
Q: As the Health and Humanities Theme Lead, what is a professional goal that you want to achieve?
It's an enjoyable role. In some ways, it's almost like a dream job where I get to think about cool ways to integrate the arts meaningfully into medical education. There has been a lot of work around narrative medicine, which is often literature-based and through story. But often, it's used as a personal growth tool rather than seeing it integrated into the curriculum as an educational tool. In my role, I will demonstrate how the arts are a valuable tool for generating more than critical thinkers. Arts are a means of questioning. It is also a window into someone else's world; in that sense, it allows us to humanize health care meaningfully.
The concern is that integrating arts and humanities will detract from the time needed to instill the technical knowledge we need to ensure people leave as knowledgeable and safe practitioners. My argument is that it does the opposite. It's a way to enhance that learning because it taps into parts of the brain that aren't necessarily activated when you listen to dry lectures on any topic. For example, in a slide which has all the criteria for any disease process, if you show a painting or a picture or a photograph that a patient has generated of their experience of that disease, you've automatically started to activate another part of the brain that allows a connection to happen. That lets you see the perspective of someone experiencing that disease process, which is fundamental to what we do. Our historical assumption about medicine is incorrect; it's more than just scientific. It's inherently emotional. The moment you engage with another human being, it becomes relational whether you like or suppress it or not. The historical way of dealing with that in medicine is to suppress our emotions. We are never taught to navigate or manage our emotions in that professional context explicitly as part of the teaching, and we end up not processing the weight of some of our clinical interactions. When you look at the personality profiles of people who get into medicine, they are usually highly avoidant individuals on those scales. We do a lot of distress-reducing behaviours like using exercise to relieve stress, but actually, what we're doing is we're being avoidant of the emotion and not ever really going there. Starting to integrate more discussion around the person within the disease process and beginning to discuss the things that come up as we have these encounters is an opportunity for skill building. For instance, we are criticized for lacking communication skills around bedside manner and patients feel like they're just a number. The systemic structures within our institutions are organized so that the bodies get processed as quickly as possible. We are trained to process bodies and parts and disease entities. The system wasn't designed to deal with people. Often, we talk about why compassion decreases as people go further along in their careers. A lot of it is because the system is designed from a place where emotions were seen as interfering or problematic. When in fact, they are quite necessary to acknowledge and learn how to navigate with skill, which we still lack in medicine. Moving forward, with the changing face of medicine, such as technology and AI, those interpersonal relational skills become even more critical for us to, number one, not get burnt out. Because it also means being relational with one another and defining what that means and what that looks like in terms of a future culture of medicine. This is a lot about the medical culture; when you come in, you can feel but may not have the words to articulate the experience. And then, how to support that in an organized way where we are still meeting the educational needs that we identify as critical components of a well-rounded educational framework. My role again is to help support what we want to arrive at but to do it in a way that would make a lecture more interesting and comprehensive of the whole human experience. There are many ways to make it exciting but also in a way that you retain the information more. When you think about how memories are formed, the most salient ones usually have a lot of emotional impact. Because at the heart of it, we are biologically wired as mammals, where emotion is essential. Often, that connection to one another differentiates mammals from others, so trying to fight or deny our biology historically has actually not worked in our favour.
Q: How do you think your identity as a lifelong artist has influenced your work as a physician?
My life in the arts has kept me grounded in being a person versus a robot in a system. My artistic career began with dabbling as an undergraduate, and as I went through my residency training, I continued participating in different kinds of movement training. I did a lot of martial arts initially, and then breakdance. There was a lot of overlap in terms of the physical patterns. Dancing was just for fun. I would go out to clubs at night with my friends, dance it all off, and then face another day—that was a big part of my emotional outlet. But then it began to take a much more focused artistic leaning when, sometime during residency, I started to do a lot more professional contemporary dance workshops and spent extended time with these communities where we would sit within our bodies. I would leave the studio and then come to work and feel a distinct change in my body. For a while, I couldn't understand what it was. I thought, oh well, they're just two worlds I must keep separate. But then I realized that in medicine, we are taught to shut our bodies off. We are taught to ignore the signals of the body, whereas, in the studio, I'm supposed to be aware of every little hair. Then, I started to think more intellectually and academically about the discourse around the body in these two different settings. In the art world, it's all about being in the body and the senses and trying to understand what these senses are about and what's being taken in by the sensory experience. But then, as a medical trainee and a person working in health care, you are told to shut down to plough through it, which can be helpful, but also hindering. It is useful at times because it's not great to fall apart emotionally during some critical moments. But then the problem is that we get stuck there. And we bottle it all up. And then we explode at the most inopportune times, like when you are home with your family and someone has left a sock in the middle of the room, and you lose it—moments when emotions get tipped over the edge. In these moments where you’re so stressed and need care, but you're unable to ask for it. And then in this moment suddenly this sock is such an infringement on your space, a sign that someone doesn’t care enough to even be considerate to you. That's when you explode. The contrast of the artistic world started to ground me in understanding that I am not being honest about my needs in my work environment and what I need afterwards. I began to realize I was using the dance as an outlet, but I wasn't sitting with the emotions of why I needed that outlet to begin with. But that's the thing about when you start to have a true practice in the arts: the more it becomes a dedicated practice, the more you can't avoid but go to the place of emotion. Because it just becomes more of a mirror of you. So, that's the self-development portion that an artistic practice provides. And there are different outlets—through that, I do writing, I do some drawing, and I sing and do other expressively reflective things. Most people have something or multiple outlets, but it's not the same as being a professional artist. For me, that came later, the understanding between the two. For a professional artist, their livelihood often depends on their work. Also, just like anything else, it takes at least a decade to develop a craft where you arrive at a much deeper understanding of what that practice is beyond just expressing yourself. It then becomes a medium for other things. In Canada, we don't have a lot of funding for the arts, so many artists have a day job of some kind. I work semi-professionally as a dance artist, but that evolved over at least a decade of beginning to sit with, 'Oh, why is this practice important to me?' It's beyond just personal expression. I'm interested in exploring themes about society through this medium. It took on a greater life of its own and through different collaborations. I spent much time understanding movement—I constantly watch people move. What also strikes me in medicine is how uncomfortable people are within their own bodies. When I watch people's bodies in medicine, it's almost like a disembodied observation of lots of time up in the head, but not a lot of time connected with the gut or the rest of the body. This disembodiment does work against us after a while.
Q: Are you able to have the opportunity to talk to your patients about the importance of movement or perhaps if they come to you for advice. What do some of those conversations look like?
I gravitated towards sports medicine because it was a place where you have conversations about people's relationships with their bodies. It's always been an interesting challenge for me to understand what people's resistances are around exercising, for example. Obviously, there's time constraints and varying things around recommendations on how to exercise or how much exercise. I have started not to say go exercise for half an hour. That's not realistic for a lot of people. I say even 10 minutes, broken up at different points in your day, gives you many gains. What I don't like about the exercise world is when people are thrown into a much higher intensity exercise than what their bodies are ready for. There's a lot of preparation required to be able to exercise more vigorously safely, and I feel like there needs to be a lot more time in that pre-exercise preparation. But there are also a ton of things about our society that make people feel ashamed of their bodies. That's a dominant dialogue where you're constantly fighting with your body in medicine. We're all high achievers and perfectionists; many of us are very perfectionistic around our bodies. That was something that I struggled with after entering medicine. When you're in greater distress, you often will pick on yourself more. I developed lots of disordered eating patterns as a trainee. Reflecting back, I remember thinking this isn't normal; this is veering towards some DSM criteria. And I'd even think to myself, why are you doing this? But also feeling so much distress and stress from the lack of sleep, the social deprivation, and all the striving to perform perfectly. While I could articulate that I was distressed, I didn't feel like I had the time or energy to deal with it. I did start counseling as an undergraduate, but something didn't feel right. My problem with some of the counseling world at that time was how quickly they wanted to medicate you whereas I would say, ‘I need someone to talk to and I don't feel like I need to be medicated’. A similar thing did happen in med school at the time when I said I was really burnt out, and then I was told by the physician, “You call it burnout, I call it depression”, and then I thought how quickly they wanted to put me on some antidepressant medication where I felt like 'No, I think I just need to learn how to cope with things better.' I was compliant with the counseling recommendations of going on some of the antidepressant medications but it felt it was simply suppressing my emotions, when in reality, I needed to learn to have skills to deal with my emotions. It's been a long journey, probably informing which counselling frameworks I chose to train in. I want to talk about this openly because if you're not feeling stressed and unhappy at some point in your medical training, you either must have the best supports ever and be able to talk about your feelings honestly all the time, or you're in denial. It's most likely one of those two. But it's a normal thing, that medicine is hard. It's hard, and it's because we are dealing with tragedy every day, and that is not a normal thing. That's why it's often difficult to talk about what you do to your friends who are not in medicine and why communities of support in medicine become much more important. Because what we do is specialized and tough. It's overwhelming because the stakes are high if you're incompetent. The weight of that, the burden of that, is real. Things have improved so much in terms of us trying to support learners through this. Part of it is to have the humility and courage to ask and admit that I'm having a bad day. Because, again, there's so much shame around not being able to take it, that you're not tough enough when, in reality, a lot of the toughness is having the emotional honesty to acknowledge fallibility. That's much harder because it goes to a place of vulnerability, which is hard. Culturally and societally, while we say we talk about it, the resources around this are still developing. It's very individual though, learning what will work for you when. Sometimes, avoidance is necessary because you just have to get through to a particular period. But what I want to encourage learners to do is that you can do that because it is a good survival mechanism, but then there has to be a point where you have some place which is safe for you to collapse into a puddle, being held by a network of support. That will help you get through training much more sustainably than arriving at a crash and burn, which many of us do. Many of us hit really low points. I definitely had some very low points. Thankfully, I had a good, strong support network. My parents are culturally ill-equipped to speak about emotions, but at least my siblings are great. Your community is key. To me, the arts and humanities are accessible tools for personal growth available to anybody. And it doesn't have to be performative. That's the thing. The arts are not just about producing something that someone will buy. A lot of that artistic practice is around just sitting in it and practicing your voice. That's essentially what it's about when you're doing it from a personal standpoint. Artistic practice is about practicing a voice, experimenting with voices, and finally arriving at what voice is authentic to you. There are lots of different voices in you. We have a lot of different roles, but most people want to understand what is actually me? And what is the world asking me to be? That's an important distinction for learners; medicine asks you to be something. That's why there's this massive identity crisis—to separate the performance of medicine from who you are. It's a role you can step into, but you need distance. It's important to have some distance but also understand that immersively ploughing through it and being committed will make you an incredible practitioner. It's an incredible profession to be in. It's just that there are times when it's really hard. Medicine does require sacrifice. You can still have a practice of developing yourself in a personal way. But you have a responsibility in medicine to what you've committed to, and it's because you are holding human life in your hands when you leave. It's a time-limited period for training, so take advantage of all your learning opportunities. No matter if it seems relevant to what you will do later. This early in training everything you’re being taught is relevant so open your minds to all of it. It's hard to explain to trainees that every rotation is so important. There's so much you'll gain if you dive into how fascinating it all is and the skills you'll learn, just in general be broad-minded. There are ways to have fun with it, too. There are days you'll go home and cry like that was awful. That's okay. That's normal. But there will be many amazing days too.
Q: I saw that you were featured on Canada's Got Talent last year. How was that? What is a project that you are particularly proud of?
That was a fun thing I got to do with other women physicians. That particular choir produced a virtual performance during the pandemic, which brought much attention, and we were invited to compete on Canada's Got Talent. That experience for me was a neat thing to try. However, in terms of a project that stood out for me personally and artistically, the one that has sat with me more than being on Canada's Got Talent is a short film I co-created with a bunch of staff at Unity Health Toronto. That film project was so meaningful because it captured a lot of the pain we experienced during the pandemic, but then so much about community connection that helped people get through that time, like their clinical community at work. It was amazing that it all came together and so deeply special. We were so fortunate to collaborate with a very talented film director who has worked as first assistant to Sarah Polley, named Sonia Gemmiti. Her direction and editing is what made the story of the film so beautiful and visually cohesive. The creative team also had another contemporary dancer who is also a cancer survivor, Christy Stoeten, who was able to collaborate and work with staff in such an emotionally intimate way even though none of them were trained dancers. The soundtrack was created by one of our nurses, Danielle Goudge, who is also a musician and she integrated real sounds recorded by staff from their clinical settings. The film project was really something profound for us to experience and navigate together. It's a 6-minute dance short film called The Choreography of Care (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYT-K9FsRMo). We were curious how it would land with many people because it's an abstraction. When you do things in the art world, it can be like Canada's Got Talent where it's a singing performance that’s straightforward and literal. But then, when you take something that's an abstraction of people's experiences, it's always curious to see how it's received. That film project will stay with me for a long time; something that has layers of meaning within it. I continue to be involved with other projects with dancers. That's the part-time work I'm still doing in the dance world, and in one of them, we're investigating our concept of care, like what care means through a dance lens and what that research could bring into the healthcare environment. Canada's Got Talent was fun because being on TV is always something that gets people excited and it brought a lot of joy to colleagues, friends and family. It was a heartwarming experience for everyone. But in some ways it was horrifying because I hate seeing myself on camera. Would I choose to do it again? Probably not. I prefer the not-so-direct. I would rather be more in a contemporary form of presentation; I'm more subtle in terms of what I prefer. I like experimenting with the indirect. Like, seeing how the seemingly competing worlds of the arts and medicine can be merged through my academic role and create some innovations in medical education that will allow students to experience what the arts can bring in a way you don't expect, in a way that will enable you to hear other voices and their stories. Everything in art has a contained story, and what messages you take from that story and what lessons are things that I'm looking forward to exposing learners to.
Q: Any closing remarks to share?
It is a privileged position to be selected to be in medicine, even though there are times when you question why you chose to do it because it's a complex and highly demanding profession. The more you give yourself little moments to be with yourself or be with people who make you feel supported, the easier it becomes to get through. I recommend people find activities that fill their cups back up. It can be a depleting place if you lean towards giving too much all the time. But that's something you'll learn to navigate: how much of yourself to give and when, because it's not rigidly confined. And when things do come up that hit you more emotionally hard, it is okay to find places where you can sit with that and feel supported in how to process what has happened. But also, it's an adventure. Think about your medical career as an adventure with ups and downs, and just stay open to the possibilities of what a lot of these learnings will bring. Think about what boundaries will help you to feel like you will still have a sense of who you are while stepping into this larger, sometimes all-consuming professional identity. It's a big deal; everyone will arrive intact somewhere and someplace, and know that it changes over time. As a trainee, enjoy the learning as much as possible and understand that all of it is relevant. But to have that place, know where your tipping points are and where you need to cap it so you don't burn out. It's tiring, sleep when you can. Know that the culture of medicine is changing, and we are trying to think of different frameworks and ways to organize our systems. You're part of this transition, part of the generation that will help shape it. Even though it doesn't feel like you have a lot of influence now, your voices matter. I always love spending time with learners and hearing your perspectives because you also help to keep us grounded. It's a two-way exchange. I'm giving you my experiences, but your experiences are equally valuable and help to inform how we continue to try and shape a better system for all of us.
5 Things to do in Toronto that won’t break the budget: Spring & Summer Edition
April Christiansen, 2T7 MAM
1. Drop-in Pottery class at the Gardiner Museum
This one is too good not to share (although I thought about gatekeeping it). If you are looking for a very inexpensive, beginner-friendly pottery class, these adult drop-in classes are for you. Tickets are only $22, or $18 for students, for a 2-hour, instructed class. Tickets are sold online from 10:00 am the morning of the classes (Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday) until sold out. Of course, at this price, there must be a catch… they sell out very quickly, almost immediately. So, make sure to set an alarm for 9:59 am to secure a spot!
2. Sofar Sounds Show
I’ve been to over 6 Sofar Sounds shows in Vancouver and Toronto and have never not had a great time. I’ve probably recommended attending a show to anyone and everyone I’ve ever known.
What is it?
Sofar Sounds is a global music community that hosts secret concerts in unique spaces with cool people. It is a cozy experience with great energy and lots of new faces.
Sofar transforms everyday spaces - like a rooftop, store, or art gallery—and turns them into captivating, intimate venues for secret, live music performances, creating an experience that connects guests and artists. Each Sofar gathering is small (~25 tickets available) and typically features three or four diverse acts with no headliner.
You’ll get to discover and support talented artists in Toronto while not breaking the budget. Tickets are only $30 per person—perfect for a date night or a fun night out with friends!
How does it work?
Pick a concert in your hometown (Toronto) or while you travel (they have pop-ups in over 400 cities). You’ll choose your Sofar based on the neighbourhood (i.e. Annex, Geary Avenue, etc.), but the exact venue and artists will be unknown, almost like a modern-day speakeasy. The exact address will only be sent to you 24 hours before the show via email, and you’ll find out who the artists are when they take the mic!
They have several shows throughout the week in many different locations around Toronto. It is a great way to spend your free Tuesday or Thursday night—go grab your tickets online!
3. Sunset at Riverdale Park
There's no better location to capture a Toronto sunset. You have definitely seen photos of this park on Instagram and maybe even Pinterest. Riverdale Park’s open landscape offers stunning views of the city skyline, and it is the perfect spot for a scenic picture or picnic date.
4. Bike along the Great Lakes Waterfront Trail
Grab a bike and ride along Waterfront Trail. This biking trail stretches over 3000 km throughout Ontario, with access points in several major cities like Kingston, Toronto and Hamilton—so you can start wherever you want. Whether you’re looking for just an hour-long bike ride or want to plan a multi-day cycling trip with friends, this trail comes with great views, accessible routes and well-maintained paths for easy riding.
5. Pinot’s Palette (Paint Night!)
A paint night is the perfect blend of creativity and social camaraderie. If you are looking for a fun and affordable activity, a wine and paint night at Pinot’s Palette is a great go-to (for those of drinking age, of course). The classes are $45 or less and guided by skilled local artists. Whether you're a seasoned artist or a novice seeking a night of artistic exploration, this event promises a fun and colourful experience!
Interview with Daffy Creative Leads
Interview by: Ashley Li & Subin Park
Karen Li is a second-year medical student who loves to write, listen to and play music, sketch, and explore other artistic media.
Julian is a third-year MD/PhD student, and the love child of Bonnie Tyler and Hercule Poirot.
Jasmine is a first year medical student and was a writer for Daffy this year.
Aditi is a second year medical student and was the Director and a Producer for Daffy 2024. She loves musicals and enjoys reading, baking and cooking for her food instagram, and playing badminton in her spare time.
Q: Could everyone introduce themselves, and tell us a little bit about what inspired/motivated you to join Daffy initially?
Aditi: My name is Aditi. I'm a second-year medical student. I've done various roles and performances before. In high school, it was orchestras, and before that, I used to be more on stage, dancing, singing, and acting. . .I came into musicals kind of late. I only really started getting involved more behind the scenes in my undergrad years. So when it came to University of Toronto (UofT), and I saw that Daffy was a thing, I was really intrigued because that's not something I thought would be a typical extracurricular in medical school. . .I was involved last year [in] an assistant directing and assistant stage managing capacity. . .[This year] was my first time [being a director]. I've never done it before, but I really liked the little exposure I got to it last year and wanted to take more of a role in the creative sense, rather than just handling more logistics behind the scenes.
Julian: I'm Julian. I'm a third-year MD/PhD student. I never really had any involvement in musical theater before medical school, but for the past three years I've been involved with Daffy as a part of the band. In the first two years of Daffy, I really liked seeing how the stories came to life, and how we were able to involve music and display everyone's wonderful talents on stage, in the band, and behind the stage too. And that inspired me to want to take a creative role this year [as a writer]. I had some ideas and I think that working with the other writers, we were really able to put them together and make a great show.
Karen: I’m a second-year medical student, and I was a writer and band member for Daffy this year. Having played the violin in orchestras and other ensembles, I wanted to join a community of fellow artists and musicians. The sense of community and support at Daffy was apparent from the first rehearsal, so I stayed, and I also came back the next year!
Jasmine: I'm Jasmine. I'm in my first-year of the MD/PhD program. . .I was lucky enough to do some theater in undergrad, and I really enjoyed writing and getting to work with creative people, so I thought this was a super cool way to get acquainted with the medical community as a first year and rise up to the challenge of helping to write this two-hour musical. I thought it would be a good way to also get to know my peers [and] like minded people who are passionate about the arts.
Q: What was your involvement in the arts before Daffy? A musical is a collaboration between so many different aspects of the arts—how did your background inform your approach and how did you find the transition to the medium of a musical?
Aditi: I've been playing piano since I was four or five, then I started playing the violin in middle school, and I was doing orchestra for all of middle school and high school. . .I also used to be a Bollywood and Indian classical dancer most of my life through high school as well. In the last year of my high school, I produced our variety show. . .so that was when I started to get more into behind the scenes stuff. And then at McMaster, in my first year, we did a residence musical. . .I helped produce that as well and helped build the sets for the McMaster musical theater in my second year.
In terms of my background in forming my approach, because I'm someone who filled multiple roles before,. . .I brought a little bit of my experience, [such as,] how when I was on stage what I wished were going on behind the scenes and also from my recent experience knowing what you put into rehearsals that makes life behind the scenes easier.
This [was] my first year doing any form of formal direction. It was a little bit challenging in the sense that I had ideas, but I wasn't entirely sure how it would transition onto stage because I've never been solely responsible for giving ideas that then get translated onto stage. . .But I think the fact that I had a diverse background across various forms of involvement in the arts helped me to figure out what it is that I would have wanted had I been a member of the band, member of dance, member of cast, or member of crew, and tried to take that perspective and transition into the medium of musical. I think by drawing on those past experiences it worked fairly seamlessly.
Julian: My involvement in the arts before Daffy is mainly from a musical perspective. I played the cello for many years—since elementary school—and piano and other instruments too. I've always loved being in ensembles like orchestras and bands. When I joined medical school, it felt natural to want to participate in something like Daffy because it was an opportunity to collaborate with other musicians and create music together. In the first year that I joined [Daffy] during the pandemic, everything was done virtually and asynchronously, so we didn't actually get to play together as a band. So coming out of that experience, it was really important for me to participate in the band as a community and to work and collaborate with other people to add our own personal touch to the music in the play. . .In terms of writing the script, we really wanted a lot of opportunities for the band and the singing to really shine through and carry the musical.
Karen: I’ve always loved storytelling and creating narratives through different media, so witnessing the fusion of so many aspects of the arts was an eye-opening and fulfilling experience. I have dabbled in visual arts, but I identify mostly as a musician and a writer. There is something special about integrating aspects of the arts that often work in silos. The collaboration requires so much communication, mutual respect, and sometimes compromise, and I have so much admiration for the leads who made all of this possible.
Jasmine: Before Daffy, I was mostly involved in the acting side of the theater. I did do some writing, but I wasn't really into it until the later years of my undergrad [at UofT]. . .Some of the most memorable [memories] include High School Musical, Theory of Relativity, and some lesser known ones too, and some student written works as well. I had a lot of fun acting and that informed the way that I contributed to the writing of Daffy. As an actor, it's always great to have layers and the level of depth to the characters even if the character is not the main role. It's always great when everyone in the script has a story, reasons, and motives for acting the way that they do. It inspired me to advocate for an ensemble cast, which as we know, our script this year very much highlighted. . .It's always great to see different cast members shine in their own different ways.
Q: Last year, the script and score was written by one person and this year it was a collaboration between multiple writers. What was that process like? How did the idea for this story come together?
Julian: The collaborative approach allows for lots of different ideas to come together and for us to synthesize something that not one person could really create on [their] own. . Sometimes for the sections that I wrote, I would include something that was inconsistent, something that didn't make sense, or a joke that didn't land, and one of the other writers would catch it. I was also able to contribute and help build on others’ ideas as well. I think that collaborative process really helped us synergistically create a play that would be better than anything that any of us could create individually. . .I really think we carried a lot of everybody's ideas through to the end, and I think that was really valuable.
Jasmine: [We were] there for each other, catching different plot holes. . .and making sure that things [made] sense. It was really great to have more eyes on the script and making sure that [the story was] as cohesive as possible. . .I think it was Julian’s idea to have a 'whodunit’ genre, and I I believe it was my idea to [time travel to] the 80s. It was a mashup of different people’s inspirations and ideas, and somehow we made it all coalesce. Having other people's perspectives is super useful as a writer because it makes you more aware of the different ways that different lines can land with an audience, and being in a team makes you more able to see where some scenes might be unnecessary or you might need to add more to a specific character to make them more realistic or relatable.
Aditi: When I put out the applications for writers, I always wanted there to be more than one because you get a lot of like depth and quality of ideas when there's multiple people working together. . .I think incorporating [Julian, Karen, and Jasmine’s] visions worked really well. . .The thing that surprises people the most is I was actually talking to like Julian and Karen during the entire audition process because if I saw someone who auditioned who would fit well with the musical, but the role didn't necessarily vibe,. . .they were so great taking that feedback and adding in different roles and modifying the story.
Q: The work certainly didn’t end once the script was written. Could you tell us about your experience translating this script into reality? Were there any surprises?
Aditi: In terms of translating this script to the actual show on-stage, I think because the process had been so collaborative up to that point, and because Julian and Karen were also there at the first read through and able to answer questions for some of the cast members about what their characters personalities are and what the backstory is, it helped. . .our main five characters [to] feel grounded in their characters when we came into the first rehearsals. In terms of trying to translate it onto stage, there were definitely some changes. One of the changes. . .[was] based on the chemistry between the five [main cast members]. Those were some areas where, I knew what the original intention was with the script, and we maybe took the dialogue in a little bit of a different direction, either playing things up so that the characters are more angry or frustrated, or playing it down so they're more sad when maybe the original dialogue wasn't intended to be as sad.
In terms of surprises or unexpected challenges,. . .we had a member of the band who is an alumni of Daffy, and before COVID, Daffy had this tradition of having an original song. That tradition got lost in translation over the years of COVID, so it was not something we were aware of. It ended up being added pretty late in the game because that suggestion was made the last week of November, and then by the time we got around to initial drafts of what that original song compositionally would look like, we were into mid-January. The biggest challenge was from a timing perspective, because our musical opens mid-February, so we only had a month to work and finalize that. . .I think that while it ended up being a challenge at the time, it ended up working for the benefit of the story, and I can't quite imagine it without that song in it now.
Julian: I think a lot of times in musicals, because the band is backstage or in the pit and they're not seen, they can often be forgotten in the creative process, and I've definitely seen that in the past. A lot of the time, the band is not on the same page with many other aspects of the show. But this year, because everyone really worked together as a team, and the production meetings were so collaborative and positive, everyone's voice really got to be heard. Band was really able to stay step-by-step with what was going on in terms of the acting and everything. I think that really allowed us to have the songs fit well with the singers. As Aditi mentioned, when it came time for the original song, we were able to fit that in relatively late in the game in terms of production. Usually, when different aspects of the musical aren't cohesive and aren't talking to each other as well, changes at the last minute like that can be really challenging. But I was really impressed at how willing everyone was to compromise, and I think that collaborative spirit allowed us to make changes throughout the production timeline so that the script was ultimately as good as it could be by the time we got to the performance.
Jasmine: It was incredibly rewarding to see the lines being delivered in such an amazing, thoughtful, creative way by the actors, and so many of Julian's jokes in the script, the audience just loved them. I was so happy that people enjoyed it, and it really made me want to continue working on Daffy in the future.
Q: What was it like to see your work come to life? What was the response from the community/audience?
Karen: As a violinist for the band, I first saw the play come together during one of our joint rehearsals sometime in January. I was in awe of the way the cast members incorporated their own personality and interpretations into the story to create authentic, real, and well-rounded characters. I can’t speak for everyone in the audience, but many of my friends and family were impressed by the level of mastery demonstrated by the cast (and of course everyone involved in the show).
Julian: It was really fun to see the lines that we wrote come to life. I think the actors did an amazing job and they really added life and personality to characters, which up to that point, had just been in our imagination. I remember because Karen and I sit beside each other in the band every time. If there’s a joke or an important part of the play, we're waiting to see if the audience is gonna catch onto what we were intending. Every time they would laugh or they would gasp, it'd be really satisfying. We'd be like, ‘yeah!’ and you'll high-five, or that kind of energy. . .The whole process was really rewarding. Credit to Aditi for translating the script to really bring everything to life!
Jasmine: I also just wanted to hugely congratulate Aditi on translating everything to the stage in such a beautiful way. I wasn't involved in the production process, so it was all just kind of a surprise to me to show up on Thursday and see how everything was put together. The cohesiveness of all the design elements, the set lighting, the costumes, making them sort of convey the '80s vibe. . .Everything worked so intricately with each other to convey the message—it was all so well done. As a writer, you have an idea of the plot points, but you don't necessarily always think of exactly how the actors are moving or how the blocking is going to be done. The actors took such spontaneous, unique and creative ways to play with the script and make it their own. So it was rewarding to say the least.
Aditi: I agree, it was definitely very rewarding. I guess from my perspective because I'm at every single rehearsal, I see everything unfold. . .and getting to see it all come together with the lighting, the set, all of the props, costumes, and the sound effects, etc. during our actual tech week was very rewarding. Up until that point, I had this vision in my head of how everything would look even though we didn't have all of those technical elements during rehearsal. Getting to see it come together, especially during tech week and then during the opening shows, was really spectacular. The moment for me that felt the most like, "Oh my goodness, I'm so glad it worked," was the original song. Hearing the lyrics being sung to the orchestration that Yuang did,. . .and then seeing it on stage, I was like, "Oh, I'm so glad that this works.". . .Overall, it was a very rewarding experience to get to see what was in my head come to life. [Everyone] honestly did better than I could have ever imagined. The combo of band, dance, crew, tech, and cast worked so beautifully together.
Q: What did you hope would be the key takeaway from this year’s Daffy?
Julian: [This year’s Daffy] was only the second Daffy that we've had since the pandemic. . . .What I really wanted people involved in the production to take away is that collaboration works—working together and openly communicating. Everyone is really a core part of what makes Daffy so great, and I hope that that's something the 2T7’s are able to carry forward into next year—to carry on the tradition of how important collaboration is.
Aditi: The biggest thing for me, coming back to Daffy this year, was wanting to create a sense of community. It existed to a certain extent last year, but there were so many new challenges to navigate with last year being the first year back in-person. This year, I really wanted to take everything I had learned from being involved last year and incorporate some of the lessons that I learned so that we were able to really focus on having a great community and a great collaborative effort for this musical. This was why I was so particular, especially when we started our Saturday rehearsals, that there needed to be production meetings, so we're able to talk about things and ensure that everyone's voice is heard.
Jasmine: People are so, so busy in medical school and it’s so hard to find the time to do the things that we love and bring us joy. This year's Daffy, all the years before, and all the years to come are evidence to show how valuable the arts can be for future physicians, and the impact that it can have on our development.
Karen: The play this year was all about teamwork, community, and camaraderie, both within and outside of medicine. None of us is alone, and none of us can be alone. For me, Daffy has always been about the people as much as it is about the arts. I hope the shows served as a reminder to check in on our loved ones, to reach out for help when we need it, and to stand by each other through life’s ups and downs.
Q: How will you incorporate the arts into your future career? What is the value of medical students engaging in projects like this?
Aditi: We think of the career path, trajectory and the job of the physician as being super technical and scientific, revolving around evidence-based medicine. But at the end of the day, it's a humanistic profession. You're working with people. To connect with people [is] where the artistry aspect helps you build the ability and capacity to have compassion and empathy, and to work with people. At the end of the day, a lot of what we do involves taking a medical history from the person. But, it's also listening to the person's story, understanding who they are, and then tailoring all of this information and knowledge that we've learned to apply it to the person in front of us. I think involvement in the arts is instrumental in building a lot of those soft and technical skills to be able to do that. It ties into making you more of a person-forward physician. . .For the rest of my time in medical school, I’ll continue to stay as connected as I can to endeavors like Daffy in order to keep that connection alive and well in whatever capacity I'm able to do. I think it's about never forgetting the kind of joy and lessons that art brings, whether that means continuing to play an instrument or continuing to attend future Daffys, or continuing to engage in any form of the artistic organizations that exist for the physician community. They are a significant part of our community—bands, musical groups, choirs, etc. There's a lot of like-minded people in medicine who have interest in the arts, and you just have to look to find them in order to stay engaged.
Julian: I'm really fortunate to be in the MD/PhD program. I think that the MD/PhD program has a long tradition of being involved in Daffy because we have the benefit of being able to participate in multiple years over the course of our program. Certain MD/PhD students have been instrumental in carrying the community and the spirit of Daffy forward throughout the years, and I'm looking forward to being able to participate in that field further in the future.
Karen: For me, the arts have helped me become a more thoughtful, empathetic person with a greater appreciation and curiosity for the narratives of those around me. Daffy also served as a reminder of aspects of my identity outside of medicine. My love for the arts and music is one of the key things that make me who I am. Projects like Daffy provide a platform for medical students to explore the intersection between arts and medicine. Moreover, they teach us lessons about being a clinician beyond what can be taught in a classroom.
Interview with Sador Bereketab
Interview by: Hadeel Alhadi
Sador Bereketab is a first-year medical student at the University of Toronto and a singer-songwriter, violinist, and pianist. She started playing the violin and piano at the age of four and then started singing around eleven. For high school, she went to a performing arts high school, where she got to focus on both my artistic and academic pursuits without having to prioritize one over the other. After starting her undergraduate studies, she was worried that this might change until she was encouraged by her mentors to use her high school years as an example of what is possible. Thereafter, she joined the Ottawa Pops Orchestra as a violinist and went back to teaching violin and piano. During this time, she also started exploring the boundaries of how music can intersect with science and medicine in research. She is also inspired by my family and the Eritrean community. Many of her interests within medicine are greatly motivated by gaps she had seen growing up, saying that the hypervisibility of being a Black classical musician has been a driving force for much of her advocacy work in classical music education for Black youth.
Q: Your debut song, Proud, is famously about your journey to medical school. Can you tell us a little bit about how the song came to be and what it means to you now as you navigate your medical training?
I released my very first single, Proud when initially starting medical school at the end of August since the sentiments of the song aligned really well with this period of my life. While many think I wrote Proud around that time, the insider scoop is that I actually wrote it in the summer of 2021 during what felt like a difficult time in the world and my personal life. I wrote this song as a reminder to be proud of how far we have come even if there is a long road ahead. Two years later, as I entered medical school, this message felt as relevant as ever. We all deal with self-doubt and the pressures of what it means to be a medical student. This song was very much a reminder to myself to be proud of how far I’ve come and for simply doing my best no matter the outcome. A line that I personally love is “for every three steps forward, there’s only one step back” since it reminds me to stay focused on the big picture growth and goals rather than the minor setbacks.
It’s funny. I actually had no intention of releasing Proud initially, it was a way for me to work through my feelings and express myself in the way I knew best, through music. However, I had shared a small clip of the song with some friends earlier that year and noticed how they really resonated with the lyrics as well. It was in this moment that I understood how the original I was writing to “get things off my chest” could actually have a bigger impact than I thought. Sharing vulnerabilities through my music could help someone else who is navigating similar struggles.
Q: It’s amazing to be able to share that experience with your classmates and other listeners! How do you hope those listeners, especially those facing their own challenges, will connect with Proud?
As I said before, I hadn’t really thought about this when writing Proud because I didn’t intend on releasing it. But now that it’s out, I think a lot about what it could mean to listeners. My originals all felt so personal when writing them. Still, as I shared Proud with those around me, it was very clear that you didn’t need to experience the same life events as me to resonate with the feelings and sentiment of the song since everyone has their own interpretation. I released Proud on August 20th after which I was flooded with such beautiful messages from friends, colleagues, and strangers about how much the song meant to them. To this day, I get listeners reaching out after big life moments to say that they are listening to Proud and feel like they can really understand what I was singing about. It just feels so incredible to be a part of someone’s happiest life events through my music.
There is also an added layer to this being in medicine. I think it’s been normalized for us to hide our vulnerabilities and the challenges of the journey and profession. My music is so personal and so intertwined with my journey as a medical trainee. Sure these vulnerabilities can be uncomfortable, but they make us stronger and more compassionate as future practitioners. Whether in medicine or not, I hope that my listeners continue to use Proud as a reminder to celebrate all that they’ve overcome and accomplished no matter how they feel in the moment.
Q: I can definitely relate to this experience in medicine. It’s quite amazing to hear about the story behind Proud, can you walk us through your creative process in general? What inspires you to create music?
I only started exploring songwriting in the last few years. In 2020, I found myself feeling very heavy seeing the impacts of the pandemic, the re-emergence of police brutality in the news, as well as some difficult experiences in my personal life. So I essentially started songwriting as a means of processing my thoughts and frustrations. Prior to songwriting, I was mostly a classically trained musician where my training was more technical and structured. Even though I love playing classical repertoire to this day, songwriting allowed me to explore another avenue in music that involved more artistic freedom and creative expression.
I actually find it quite challenging to describe my creative process since there isn’t really a system that I follow. Oftentimes, the burst of creativity will randomly hit and I have to be motivated enough to write the song in that moment. This almost always is at 2 am, in my room, with my mic and keyboard. This self-produced version of my songs often sits on my phone and might get modified every so often. When deciding to release Proud, I collaborated with a music engineer who helped bring my song to life.
Yes for sure. High school was the transformative backdrop where I began to truly grow into myself and take art more seriously. Like most people in highschool, I felt somewhat pressured to fit into certain “boxes” or social dynamics, and didn’t always feel comfortable being my authentic self.
In my final years of highschool, I created a piece called, “The individual” which was the first abstract composition piece and the second abstract painting I had ever produced in my life. It holds a special place in my heart because it was also the first piece of art that I ever publicly presented and it represents me stepping into my identity both as an artist and as a unique individual, quirks and all. This painting is really a celebration of me being honest, raw, and authentically me.
Q: It’s really interesting to hear about the process behind your music! You touched on it briefly before, but can you expand on how art and medicine intersect in your life?
Music has always been a part of my life from a very young age. Even in my earlier years, having music parallel with my other life commitments helped me stay grounded in challenging life experiences. Medicine is in no way an exception. As I think about the risks of burnout in medicine, the emotionally difficult patient encounters, and the frustrations of a suboptimal healthcare system, I hope that I can continue to use music in navigating these concerns.
I have also seen how music can be immensely beneficial for patients and community members as they navigate personal well-being and health struggles. A few years ago, I had the opportunity to explore the intersection of music and medicine through a research project where I was looking at how violin and piano education improve the quality of life of children with hearing loss. I was also taking a few specialized music and health courses such as musician wellness and music education for youth with intellectual disabilities. I found that these experiences helped me realize the real implications of music in medicine and how I want to incorporate it into my future practice. In addition to addressing the medical concerns of my future patients, I also want to humanize their patient experiences and prioritize their quality of life. I think music in healthcare can be that added touch to patient interactions.
Even though the research I was doing was very valuable in exposing me to the role of music in health, I have always been fueled by community work. At the time, I was volunteering with LiveWorkPlay an Ottawa organization that aims to improve the social integration of community members with intellectual disability. I was organizing a bunch of social activities for our members, which helped me see that I could mobilize the theoretical knowledge I've acquired through my research into the community. So I developed a series of interactive music activities for community members with intellectual disabilities to foster a sense of community and improved quality of life through music exploration. I have a strong appreciation for the role of music and art therapists in the clinical setting and hope to empower my future patients to seek out such services.
Q: It’s great to see the various impacts that music has on your life and the lives of those around you! You also mentioned that you dedicate a lot of effort to music accessibility. Can you tell us more about that?
As I mentioned earlier, I am also a classical violinist and pianist. After starting music at the age of four, I pursued private music lessons along with weekend orchestra rehearsals. For high school, I actually went to a performing arts high school where I specialized in Violin performance. While I absolutely loved studying classical music, I was always hyper-aware of how I was the only Black musician in my orchestras and recitals. I am also very integrated into my Eritrean-Canadian community and the fact that I was a classical musician was always met with a very similar response. They would ask if there were other Black musicians in my orchestras or music schools. And they would often respond with “I could never” when I mentioned that I was often the only one. They didn’t mean that they could never explore classical music, but rather that they could not be the only Black person in a particular space. It was more a question about the dissonance between the spaces you’re occupying and your social identity. I collaborated with my sister, who is also a classical violinist and pianist, to reach out to different music schools and educational associations to better understand the gaps and barriers to pursuing classical music for Black youth. We created workshops for music educators across North America and wrote an article for the American Suzuki Journal for music pedagogy on improving classical music accessibility for Black youth. It’s always nice to see what improvements come from these efforts. In our case, some music programs adjusted their music history teaching to better represent the Afro and Black influences on classical and jazz music based on the content of our workshops, and increased representation and exposure to Black excellence in classical music. Other programs started putting more funding into subsidized music programs. It’s also great seeing how in creating this impact, I have also learned many transferable skills that I am now able to bring to improve the accessibility of medical education for aspiring physicians and health literacy in the community.
Q: It’s wonderful to see the positive impact that your work has on the community! You seem to be very dedicated to your work in music, and starting medical school and going through the training can be quite exhausting and a lot of us start to abandon other interests or passions. How do you balance medicine and music and what advice do you have to other medical trainees who want to maintain their passion for their art?
I think my decision to make time for both is largely because I know that I need both. I used to think that music was something that I do separately from other “more important” things in my life, but now I realize that being a musician is helping me be a better medical student and future physician. I think it’s common to feel a sense of guilt if we see our other passions outside of medicine as a distraction. My mindset is that my music actually helps me stay grounded and be more intentional or even focused during my time in medicine. I also briefly touched on the stigma in medicine associated with showing our vulnerabilities. I think that immersing myself in art has been very helpful for me since I’m able to break through these stigmas in a way that feels comfortable to me. Music has helped me bond with my colleagues and mentors and has helped me process life experiences. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I find it hard to give this advice since it’s definitely something I’m still figuring out myself. I would say it is important to be extremely intentional with your time and to be as genuine and authentic as possible to your values and passions. I know it’s hard, but resist any urge to feed into the external pressure of what others deem as a “good medical student or physician”.
Q: Lastly, what are the next steps for you? Can you tell us about any upcoming projects?
As you know, I released my first original, Proud, last summer and I'm planning on releasing another single this summer, so keep an eye on my social media and streaming platforms for that (listed below). I have also been performing a lot this year and I actually just had my first solo concert in Ottawa where I got to play some unreleased originals and connect with the community I’ve created through my music. It was a very surreal moment for me to be with people who really wanted to hear me perform and were there to support me. Sharing music live is something that I've always enjoyed and I plan on having more performances soon, some of which will be fundraisers for causes that I really care about so stay tuned! Another exciting update is that now I’ve started accepting violin or vocal performance invites for weddings and other events so feel free to reach out!
Q: So, where can we find you?
Instagram: @sadorbmusic
TikTok: @sadorbmusic
Music Streaming Services (ex. Spotify): Sador B
For bookings: email at sadorbmusic@gmail.com