Interview with: Autumn Sky
Q: Could you please tell us a bit about yourself and your experiences with the arts?
I’m an MD/PhD student here at U of T. In terms of my journey with the arts, I was always into film. As a child, I was writing movies and recruiting my neighborhood friends to make films. I was involved in the arts throughout high school, like all the bands and musicals. In undergrad, which was back in 2014, I switched gears and became focused on science. There was a period of time where I really wasn't involved in the arts at all.
Then, there was a pivotal change that took place during a gap year that I had following undergrad, and that inspired me to not go into medicine at that time. I decided to come back to school and to study theater and film formally here at U of T. At that point, I wasn't really sure what laid ahead – if it was medicine, if it was something else.
After I finished that program, I decided to go into medicine. I was involved in Daffy last year as the Assistant Director, and then this year as many roles, including the Director.
Q: As you mentioned, there were quite a few different pivotal points in your life where you had to make difficult decisions to either focus on science or focus on arts and film. I’m curious to hear about how you made those decisions. What were the driving factors?
It's a great question, especially because I think there are probably lots of us in medicine who are “type A”, and it can be really scary to do something that's not within the boxes that we might have drawn for ourselves. There is this path that we feel like we need to progress along, and a certain vision for what our careers look like, and it can be so frightening to deviate from it.
In my case, it was losing a very important person back in 2019 that was really the shift in my life. As horrific as it was, it was this shift that I needed at that time. In the aftermath, I found myself writing compulsively. It became my way to cope and to grieve and to make sense of what had happened. It was during that period of time that I decided not to go to medical school and to return to the arts, because that was the only place that I was able to really make sense of what had happened, and to find meaning.
As terrible as that time was, in the course of losing something that meant literally everything to me, it enabled me to develop this mindset: well, if I lost them, and was still able to move forward, then what is the worst that can happen by going back to school and studying theater? It was definitely a switch for me, because I was very, very afraid to go beyond the confines of what I had envisioned for my life. That's really how I made those decisions – having things put in perspective which can be so difficult when you often feel tied to your GPA, your resume, all those things. When you suddenly realize that they don’t matter, it frees you and enables you to pursue the life that you might have always dreamt of, but never had the guts to pursue.
Q: Thank you for sharing that. I’m sorry to hear all that happened. It sounds like it was a very difficult time, but I'm also glad to hear that because of what happened, you were able to liberate yourself from all those confines you may have built for yourself. I definitely agree. Many people that I know in medical school have so many backup plans. There is this compulsion to always know what's going to happen. As you said, going into the arts, it requires a certain courage of not knowing what the future holds, which can be terrifying but also very exciting. To switch gears a little, what are some of your current projects you're working on, and do you have a favorite project?
I have a few theatre-related projects in the works. Shreya Jha, one of my incredibly talented classmates, comes from a music background, and is currently finishing up writing a musical that I’ll be directing this summer. I have some other plays that I'm ‘cooking’ right now from a playwriting standpoint, but nothing formal.
Film is really like my baby; that's where my heart is. I'm hoping to produce one of my short films this summer, because I want to have it ready in time for festival season which is typically in the fall. I also have a couple of feature films that I'm working on, and then a television series which is definitely my favorite project. It is called All in, Baby. It's about a broke medical student who rises up and becomes a poker star. It's a very ‘spicy’ limited series, so I’m excited. I’m working on potentially getting it in the hands of producers at some point. We'll see, there's some exciting things going on there. New things seem to pop up week to week, so it’s hard to say what the future has in store!
Q: When you say you're working on these feature films and TV series, are you usually in charge of the screenplay, production, etc?
With short films, that's something that's feasible for me to produce by myself. I would write the script, then apply for grants to get funding, get actors, etc. If I had to, I could go out with my camera, have some actors, and shoot it myself, which would be a smaller budget thing. For the features, it's not just having a script. There are different documents that you produce that lay things out, and you can send it to producers, and you can start to workshop and pitch your ideas. I'm in the process of both finishing up scripts as well as producing pitch documents, which are important to sell your ideas and get the funding/support necessary to actually have things made.
Honestly, a lot of being an artist is about not just creating the art, but getting the money and resources to have the projects done and convincing people to take you on. There’s an artistic side, but a huge business side to it as well, especially while early in your career!
Q: So I know you said that filmmaking is like your baby. Do you engage in other types of arts at all?
The beautiful thing that I find about film is that it brings in so many of the arts. You have the writing piece. When I put dialogue together it almost becomes like poetry. When you get dialogue that hits in just the right way, it's beautiful. Then there's also the visual aspect, like photography - but it’s film. Then there’s the music. I don't write music, but I love music, and I love collaborating with musicians to create film scores and design the sound aspect of film. You also have the performance component, then the whole post-production which is a whole beast in and of itself. To me, film brings in all of the aspects of the arts. I love being in the driver's seat and directing, but I don’t have the skills myself to do all of these elements, like the music, for instance. Being a writer is where my anchor is as an artist.
Q: Could you tell us about how your passion for the arts has evolved since you started, and where do you see this going in the years to come?
Great question. Something I’d say to any artist is: keep at it. Your first work iis not going to be great. For instance, if you're envisioning this beautiful, Academy award-winning film, that is not going to be your first project. You make something, and you'll be like, “yikes, this is not great.” Advice that I would give anyone, including myself currently, is just to go out and make stuff and do it. If you want to make a film, grab your iPhone and go and make a movie. Don't let anything hold you back. Over the course of my life, it really has been a process of keeping at it and developing. You’ll also find that the more you dive into an area of the arts, the more you realize how much you don’t know. There’s always more to discover. My passion and appreciation for the arts - and for other artists - has definitely deepened since I started. When I see some of my favourite artists come out with a new piece of work - for instance - a new album - I certainly feel more connected knowing the challenges it takes not only to make the art, but to bring it out into the world and promote it to others.
In terms of where I see this headed, I'm doing my PhD in film and theatre - something tells me it will probably lean more heavily towards film, but we’ll see. My life goal is to integrate medicine with art, and to create things that share important stories. Something that's really close to my heart is ensuring humanity remains in medicine, since it’s so easy for that to get lost in all the complex information we need to be aware of as future/practicing physicians. We can get so caught up in the science that we miss the beautiful, the terrible, and the tragic – every single emotion under the moon is captured in medicine. We get to witness this every day as medical students (and later, doctors), and my passion is really to bring those stories to life.
To answer your question in a short way, it has definitely been a process of following my passions, diving into educating myself about how to get better, not being afraid of failure or judgment, and incorporating it into my career through a PhD.
Q: What inspires you? How do you take that idea and then turn it into a film? What's that process like?
Everyone’s process will be different. For me, it starts with sticky notes. My apartment is literally covered in sticky notes, because I will get a phrase or a word in my head, and that will usually become either the title, key theme, or motif in a particular work that I'm working on. My brain really latches onto titles, and then the ideas spring from there. I will often do free writing – and I encourage this for any artist, no matter what your art form is – to just allow ideas to flow uncensored, unjudged.
Then, I start to move into a more formal process. In filmmaking, we create what's called a ‘beat sheet’ where you go through the major beats or points of your story. You can make this a formal document to pitch to someone (e.g a potential producer). I often use it as just a personal space to play around. It’s basically bullet points of what your movie looks like, then you can move on to making an actual outline where you go scene by scene. After that, I will add the dialogue. Then, if I am producing it as opposed to just writing the script, I will start recruiting people, creating a shot list, making it, then doing the post-production.
It is a long process, and that’s just one way that I do things. Sometimes, I just get ideas, and I sit down and do everything from start to finish. That’s what happened with my most recent theatrical production, Queen of Hearts. I had been contemplating it for a long time, and then I sat down and wrote it in a couple of days from start to finish without any formal, documented planning. So, it really depends. Sometimes, you need a structured approach to develop your creativity; other times, you’re just in the moment, and you let it happen.
Q: On your website, you wrote that ‘Olivia Rennie is Autumn Sky.’ I’m wondering where that pseudonym comes from, and how has it impacted your work as an artist?
To be honest, I don’t remember when Autumn Sky started. The first concrete time I remember having something to do with Autumn Sky was the day after my loss in 2019. I remember it being such a horrible time that I had to shut down all of my social media. I closed all of my Olivia Rennie accounts, and I created a Facebook account for Autumn Sky. I was in such a horrible headspace that I guess I just needed to start over. Over time, I have come to love it. There was this quote I saw, a while later, that said, “Autumn is beautiful because it shows us how to let things go.” And I really resonated with that. Letting go of all that happened was really part of the transformation of calling myself Autumn.
As I started to identify more and more with Autumn - this spontaneous, creative person who isn’t afraid to pursue whatever she wants to pursue - I started to identify less and less with Olivia. If you had met Olivia back in undergrad, she would be unrecognizable in terms of worldview, perspective, and scope. Legally, I am Olivia Rennie, so my professional documents are under Olivia. When I put my website together, I wanted to succinctly convey these dual identities. I decided to write, “Olivia Rennie is Autumn Sky.
At first, it felt weird to call myself a different name - I mean, that’s not ‘allowed!’ (at least, under the strict confines of my old worldview). But over time, it has been liberating for me. I can write under a pseudonym and if I don’t like what I write, then it is not tied to me but to Autumn. It allowed me to create things that are authentic. I think as an artist, there is a fear of producing something, especially if it’s really authentic, that people may question. Having a pseudonym was like having a safety net originally, but it has helped me to come into myself as an artist. And now that I’ve fully embraced that authenticity, I’m cool with people knowing that Autumn is me, and is the artist behind the work.
Q: Have you ever contemplated changing your name legally, or do you prefer having this duality?
I go back and forth because a part of me likes the dichotomy, but at the same time, it can be tricky for people. For instance, my name on emails says Olivia, so no matter how many times I tell some people that my preferred name is Autumn, they call me Olivia. It ends up being, half of the people know me as Olivia, and half know me as Autumn. Maybe if I make it far enough in the film industry, then I will just be Autumn [laughs].
Q: Speaking of duality, you say that your experiences as a medical student inform your art. In your journey, how have medicine and art supported each other, and how might they have challenged each other?
They definitely play into each other. When I entered medical school, I saw my artistic endeavours and medical school endeavours as distinct. That terrified me, because I know Olivia - she is very hung up on grades and perfection! I was terrified that I was going to let medicine take over my life, and it did take over my life for the first few months. However, over the course of my first year, I saw many patients and the associated stories that we lose sight of when we focus too much on just the scientific side of medicine. My brain started creating characters and stories. Seeing that human side gave me fuel for my work, so I justified what I was creating as helping me better understand the content in medical school.
A lot of research also goes into writing projects. For example, one of the feature films I’m working on is called Shell of the Chrysalis. It is about a little boy who has Epidermolysis bullosa, or the butterfly syndrome, which is a genetic condition where your skin is incredibly fragile, and shears off easily. A lot of medical research and learning goes into understanding his story and his condition. To answer your question, medicine and art definitely feed off each other, and that is by choice. It is the niche in which I have put myself - for students out there who want to combine medicine and the arts, I encourage you to consider finding a niche. Whatever it is that you are passionate about in the arts, tie that into medicine in some way. Then, when you are studying medicine, you are also supporting your artistic endeavours, and vice versa.
Part of being an artist is being a good business person. Being a writer, for example, you have to be really special to stand out, because there are so many good writers out there. When I was trying to figure out how to get my work produced, I thought, I’m a medical student. Who can write about medical content better than someone who is going to be a future doctor? This is a tip I would give others who want to pursue art as part of their career - knowing how to sell yourself is incredibly important.
Q: It can be difficult to not know what lies ahead. In medicine, we tend to plan ahead - residency, then fellowship, then finding a staff position. If we were to incorporate our artistic sides to this journey, what can we do to help us feel like we are on the ‘right’ track?
I think a big part is finding mentors who have walked the path before you. There are certainly doctors who have, for instance, written books. I have connected with doctors who work in theater. Finding people and not being afraid to reach out to them, even just to talk about their path, has been huge for me. It is not common to have someone seriously pursue the arts throughout medicine, so it can feel isolating sometimes. Having this group of people to cheer you on is the community aspect that I like.
I think it is important to identify what really drives you. We all know that feeling. For some, it is when they are completing statistical analyses for research; for others, it may be running marathons, or creating music, or writing that make them feel most alive. Or dancing. It is about recognizing where you feel most like yourself, then holding on to it.
I believe medicine is so conducive to the arts, not just for healing patients, but also for healing ourselves. Each of us is human, and because of that, imperfect! We’ve all got ‘brokenness’ in ourselves, to varying degrees - simply by nature of being human in a challenging world. There is also a lot of room for advocacy, for important political change that we can enact through the arts that cannot be enacted the same way through speeches or documentation or papers. Medicine needs to think about all the mediums that can be used to leverage healing at individual and collective levels.
One tangible, actionable piece of advice I’d give is education, whether it is a free course that you enroll in online, a writer’s circle, a music group, etc. Having something to hold me accountable has been the most vital part of “staying on track”.
Q: How have you found juggling your responsibilities as a filmmaker and as a student?
I feel like film has made medical school come alive in ways that I never even imagined. Sometimes, we cover so much content that it can be hard to see where this is all going. But when I’m studying for an ME or anatomy or writing a Portfolio reflection, I imagine a character who is going through this. It makes the material feel real and alive. That’s actually helped me do better in medical school.
Of course, whatever you sign up for, make sure it’s not interfering with your medical education. If your grades are declining, or you’re not getting assignments done, then that’s not good! I’m incredibly fortunate and thankful to be able to integrate my artistic passions into my PhD research.
Q: Who or what have been some of your inspirations in the arts? Is there anyone you look up to?
There are a number of people but one in particular - his legal name is Justin Taylor Phillips, but he goes by the alias, Crywolf. I remember initially listening to the music, and I didn’t like it at all, because it made you turn inwards and examine some of the darkness and confusion that you inherently hold as a human being. That frightened me. So at first, I didn’t like his music. It was making me uncomfortable, but I was drawn to it. Over the years, his work has grown to mean so much to me. He is a small independent artist, so the “fan group” is very tightly knit. We call ourselves the ‘Crywolf pack,’ and when there are concerts, we all meet up beforehand, go out for dinner, and hang out with Justin. We even have things like virtual book clubs. It’s such a special Justin is a really big inspiration, including the way he talks about creativity and authenticity as an artist.
A playwright whose work I love is Samuel Beckett, who most famously wrote Waiting for Godot. During my medical interviews, because I had just read his work, I talked about it in at least half my interviews. I definitely identify with artists who aren’t afraid to dig into the darker side of humanity and attack the “grittier” issues. I would not describe my work as “happy” – not that I'm not a happy person, but that’s just what I identify with artistically.
Q: Do you ever listen to music when you are brainstorming or writing scripts?
It can be hard to listen to lyrics when you’re writing, but I love listening to songs from film scores. My most recent one is actually the musical score from Queen’s Gambit. There’s also The Danish Girl, The Theory of Everything, etc. I went through a Titanic phase at one point. People recognize me from my headphones, which are iconic. I love listening to epic film scores, because you almost feel like you’re in a movie yourself. I’d be listening to that and feeling legendary just walking down the street to get groceries [laughs]. I also listen to a LOT of Crywolf. And EDEN.
Q: We’ve chatted a little about community and mentorship. I’m wondering if there is anyone in particular who has guided you on this journey?
Back when I was studying theater and film and was applying to medicine, I wanted to go all in and apply everywhere in Canada. For UBC, you need English credits, so I enrolled in these English courses at the Scarborough campus just for the credits. The professor who taught them – his name is Dr. Garry Leonard – was a very inspirational man. I was drawn to the way that he would explain things. There was a final assignment in December, and he sent an email back and told me that I did a really good job. That feedback really made me feel good, like maybe there was something to this artistic path I was pursuing. He was teaching a film course in the winter term, so I decided to sign up for his film course as well. Taking that course was a turning point in my life. We continue to stay in touch via email. If there is one person I could thank for getting me into the film direction rather than theater, it would be him. He encouraged and inspired me to go back to my roots, to my childhood self - the little girl with her cheap video camera recruiting neighbourhood kids to be in her shows. He has 100% been a huge mentor along this journey. This is another one of those instances where life happens for a reason. I wonder to this day – if I hadn’t received that email from him and the encouragement it brought, would I have taken the film course? Probably not.
Q: Do you have any specific personal goals in the arts for the future?
A specific goal is to get one of the bigger things I’m working on produced. It was great to see Queen of Hearts come to life. I’m applying to a number of grants right now to have one of my feature films made - or more likely, shorts produced as pilots to market a larger feature. I would love to see that happen. With all of my work, I usually have deep meaning behind them. I don’t really write things that are just fun and fluffy – I have written things for fun, but my work usually has important themes.
I’m in this for the long haul. I’ve created a new term – clinician artist – instead of clinician scientist. In this day and age, I would argue that the music industry, and the television & film industry, are the most powerful ways to get messages across to the public, to the political sphere, and to even educate ourselves as healthcare workers. You’ve got to get that first major project under your belt and start to build the portfolio. Ultimately, what I’d like to do throughout my career is to incorporate these important messages that need to be shared in this powerful way and disseminate them to the public realm.
Q: Do you have any favorite films or television series?
As I mentioned before, I went through a phase where I was obsessed with the Theory of Everything. I think it was in my third year of undergrad that I came across that movie. To me that was a really powerful example of where science and medicine and the human story behind it can really make you think differently. When I was watching it, I realized that in an instant, when Stephen Hawking received that diagnosis, his life was flipped upside down. The movie shows him as this brilliant but laid-back student who was sort of taking life for granted; when he receives that diagnosis, he goes through the phases of grief. I just thought it was one of the most beautiful films I had ever seen.
Another one for me is Titanic. Yes, it is melodramatic, and people can say what they want. What stood out for me about that movie, and the theme that I carry to this day, is how nothing is guaranteed. When you think about it, people were there the night the Titanic sank, dining, conversing like they had their whole lives ahead of them. How could anyone have ever thought that by the end of the night, the ship would be at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean? It made me realize that we have to make every single day of our lives count, because nothing is certain, no matter how much we want to plan ahead. This was sort of what I experienced with that loss. I had this whole plan for my life, and suddenly, in an instant, it came crashing down. Every moment that we have is precious. Titanic stands to this day as a special movie in my heart.
Q: Do you have any lessons that you would like to share with others, as it relates to your life and your career?
The biggest thing I would tell anyone is to dream as big as you want to dream. If there is something you really feel yourself being called to, follow that. It’s so easy to see the top of the mountain where you want to reach, and to be standing at the bottom and get so afraid that you step away. I’ve learned that if I want to be a filmmaker, then along the way, as I chisel away at that dream, things will become clearer. Things will fall into place. It does take grit, determination, and letting go of what other people think about you. I think that is honestly the hardest part, to not care about what people say. But it’s through this process that you find your most authentic self, and this goes for whatever you are into, be it art, sport, science, etc. You don’t need to have it all planned out; you just need to have the faith to keep walking forward and allow things to happen.
Sometimes, things don’t happen the way we planned, and sometimes, that is a good thing. The best thing. Sometimes, an opportunity you really wanted won’t happen, or things just aren’t going your way, but an amazing change of perspective could be: ‘Okay, that sucks, but maybe that’s because something even better is coming along. Maybe the thing that I wanted would have taken my time and energy away from something even better.’
All of this is easier said than done. I feel saddened but also blessed that I had that experience with loss that was so life-changing. Without it, I truly don’t think I could have stepped over that boundary of fear that I had drawn for myself.
Thank you for the opportunity to share my story, and I really hope that whatever it is that people find passion in, they can see that a career in medicine does not have to put an end to it. In fact, it can allow you to experience things and connect with people in ways otherwise not possible, and to bridge your passions together in beautiful ways
